Are "true" Christians really like this?

"The standard of truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done."	Joseph Smith Jr.

"The standard of truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done."

Joseph Smith Jr.

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Posted by: J_Goldens_Shadow Original: 5/6/2009 1:05 PM Views: 72 Comments: 13 eProps: 13 Read Comments Post a Comment Back to Your Xanga Site

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Wednesday, May 06, 2009

This is something that has been troubling me, and I wonder why people do things like this. I was walking to the student center yesterday to get something to eat before my next class when I saw this guy holding a sign that, from a distance, you could read the words "Satan's Children".

crazy

This isn't the exact sign, but it's something along those lines.

I was intrigued by this, and wanting to know his explanation for doing this on a college campus, I started talking with him. I asked him what had happened with the Apostles and Prophets in the Bible and why there are none today. Right off the bat, he told me that they weren't needed.

"Well, why?" I asked.

"Because it was all fulfilled with Jesus' dying on the cross. There was no need for them after 70 AD when they had started to preach the Gospel to everyone."

"Who is your favorite Apostle?"

"Paul."

"Was he one of the original Twelve chosen by Jesus?"

"No."

"Why?"

"Someone had to take Judas' place after he killed himself."

It was obvious that he did not know the scriptures. "May I see your Bible, sir?" I asked.

"Well, um, it's an electronic Bible on my PDA."

"Well, break it out. I want to show you something."

"My batteries are dead," he blurted quickly. I didn't need it, anyway, but it would have helped. I pointed out that at the end of Acts 1, Matthias was called to fill Judas' vacancy. It was obvious that he was losing ground fast, and he had to come up with something. And it was clear that he had heard that there needed to be prophets and Apostles today. "Are you Mormon?"

"I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ, yes."

He scoffed and turned away, "Then I shouldn't even pay attention to you. What you believe is a cartoon."

A cartoon? Really? By this time a crowd had gathered and he started yelling at them while holding his sign and pointing at me, "REPENT ALL OF YOU OR ELSE YOU WILL BECOME LIKE THIS MORMON HERE!!" Now that was just going too far. It was at this point that he started yelling out what his interpretation of what I believed as well as that of Muslims, Jews, and basically anyone who didn't agree with him. Everyone who did not subscribe to his doctrine was going to Hell. This was not true Christianity. By what authority did he have to do this? None. Simply because he thought that he had read the Bible and he thought he knew it.

I couldn't hold back any more and stepped up to face the gathering crowd, "This man is telling you what you all believe. He is telling you what I believe. He has no idea what I believe. Let me tell you." And I did. I told the crowd that I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that God is our Eternal Father, Jesus the Christ is His Son and the Savior of the world. That through the grace of God, we have Apostles and Prophets, the same foundation that was established in ancient times when Christ Himself set up the Church as outlined in Ephesians 4:11-14. I also told them that there was no reason to take my word for it, that if they wanted to know who was telling the truth to go to a 3rd source, or rather, THE Source. The Source of all Truth, God Himself.

While I was speaking, the man with the sign kept calling out "LIES!", but I took comfort in the fact that there were people who were there crying out "Let him talk!". It's kind of funny, because in hindsight, I probably should have told him that I would much rather be a "Mormon" and know that I was going to Hell, than to be whatever he was and not know where the hell I was going. But then hindsight is always 20/20.

So the question I ask is this: Is this "true Christianity", to subscribe everyone to Hell who does not agree with your doctrine? To stand on a hill in front or in a school and tell them to repent simply because you have "read" the Bible? Where does that put people like Ghandi, or Buddha? What about those who have died without even hearing the name of Jesus? I'm sorry, but I REFUSE to believe in a God that is so heartless and distant enough to not care about the affairs of Man but is close enough to throw them into the deepest hottest parts of Hell for the slightest sin. My God is far more Just and Loving than that. How else should we look to our Father?

EDIT: I found out recently that the man was escorted off campus in handcuffs, not because he was doing that, but because he shoved the officer who asked him to leave.

Posted 5/6/2009 1:05 PM - 72 Views - 13 eProps - 13 comments

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13 Comments

I do not agree with all of your beliefs. But these are wise words, and wise actions, from someone who apparently knows the spirit of GOD.

Posted 5/6/2009 1:39 PM by radicalramblings

- reply

This reminds me of a conversation I had on revelife last month. Someone was convinced that Paul was telling the Corinthians that baptism for the dead is useless, not asking why they did. He was convinced that you have no chance to accept Jesus after death, even if you had never heard of him before and would have. I was then attacked with many questions about our beliefs and things in the Church's past, trying to cause contention... I answered to the best of my ability. I was still told I believe in a different Jesus so I'm going to hell.

Just like you, looking back, I wish I would have said; well I'd rather believe in my caring, merciful God and Jesus than yours.

Posted 5/6/2009 2:03 PM by ThatSady_MittGurl - reply

In America we still have the freedom of religion and he freedom of expressing ourselves through speech and placard. We also have a right at the end of the day to make a decision and declare it. That is our right in our country. We glean those rights from our founding documents. Likewise our rights and responsibilites are left in The Bible. Of course, like the Constitution, there are many who subscribe to different views and interpretations .

Now to your post, I guess the placard was designed to evoke a response. And it is obviously not politically correct. But it serveed its purpose, it evoked a response, you saw it and arrived at a decision. So while your decision is based on your faith instilled already and you do not agree with his mode of presentation and he correctly identified your faith, your account and this post then set the scenario where both of you reject each others presuppositions. You both knew each others and you both made the choice again, reconfirming your previous presuppositions.

Actually I do find it a tad odd that prosyletizing would be offensive to you. He may not be comfortable encountering people at their homes and may feel it is a invasion of privacy and offensive. The biggest difference is that he points out the contrasts in between what others believe as his inroad to evangelize people where Mormons use the similar ity to traditional Christianity. Many find the stealthness as deceptive and offensive. Different things are offensive to different people. I don't find either sign holding or door to door cold calling to be the presentation method of choice but will certainly say to those who have that inspiration to approach it from that method to go for it.

You asked a three questions at the end of your post, the first two were; Where does that put people like Ghandi, or Buddha? What about those who have died without even hearing the name of Jesus?

You then provide a preface to your answer : I'm sorry, but I REFUSE to believe in a God that is so heartless and distant enough to not care about the affairs of Man but is close enough to throw them into the deepest hottest parts of Hell for the slightest sin.

And the answer: My God is far more Just and Loving than that.

Then you leave us with a question: How else should we look to our Father?

So you also in the end provide a contrast to the other. One would inquire where did the gentlemen with the placard get his answer the questions you left us with. Just because he got the question about Paul wrong didnt mean he got the rest wrong or that you got the question right that you got the others right. That would be a false premise upon which to judge the conclusion. People should just look up the answers in the bible, maybe even google them and then decide if the bibles answers is the one they want to accept.

After all it is a contrast in the end we are looking to as to whose answer is more authoritative and how much weight we give the source upon which the answer is derived in a comparison.

@radicalramblings - I came by from your recommendation Wendi. Thought Provoking.

Posted 5/6/2009 4:00 PM by ProvokingThought

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@ProvokingThought -

I found the contrast in behavior more telling than the words coming from either party.

Posted 5/6/2009 4:23 PM by radicalramblings

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@ProvokingThought -

It's not the proselytizing that bothered me. It was the way it was done. Now, i have no doubt that this is was that man thought he was doing. I have no problem with civilized discussion. I do have a problem with being told by an outside source what I believe, which I'm sure you do as well. I was trying to figure out what he believed, and why. Proselytizing does not constitute an open condemnation and simply by saying "repent". It is teaching true principles and showing how you can repent. He wasn't looking for a discussion, he was looking to condemn.

I would like to know your answers to those questions I posed.

Posted 5/6/2009 7:10 PM by J_Goldens_Shadow - reply

True Christianity does not look like any denomination, it does not look mormon, baptist or like any other, it would be closest to the one that all the denominations would condemn, the truth of each that is hardest to accept would be held to because it is tested as truth.

God showed what He wanted in creation, and those who deny creation mandates deny who God shows himself to be.

Jesus was rejected by both the right (pharisee) and the left (Sadducee) and the religious, (the high priests) the truth puts people who believe it at odds with the whole world.

Yes God does oppose all those things on the sign, but the spirit is more like Jonah's who wished them all dead then Jesus who called for them to change (repent).

Jesus said his follower should be like him, his message desired people to be reconciled to God.

Posted 5/7/2009 3:02 PM by BiblicalTruth2

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@BiblicalTruth2 -

I agree with that save for the fact that there's a Church that Jesus set up. It had an organization. Where is it today? I invite you to look at an earlier post I wrote called "The Need For A Restoration".

Posted 5/7/2009 3:25 PM by J_Goldens_Shadow - reply

@J_Goldens_Shadow - Said : " I'm sorry, but I REFUSE to believe in a God that is so heartless and distant enough to not care about the affairs of Man but is close enough to throw them into the deepest hottest parts of Hell for the slightest sin. "

Then you have rejected the God of the bible...God is far from heartless but He will give men that reject the truth the punishment they deserve...eternal torment in the lake of fire....Why???...Because God hates sin and is angry with sinners everyday Psalm 7:11 ........What do you think Jesus was doing on the cross??...Who was punishing Him ???

Posted 5/7/2009 6:41 PM by PerilousTimes

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@PerilousTimes -

I'm afraid it's the other way around. Jesus Himself testified of the Father's love in John 3:16. The Apostle John also pointed out that God is love.

Yes, God hates sin, but He has provided the way for us. I mentioned in an earlier comment on this post that the way it's done is not through condemnation. That brings no hope. The only way is through love, by showing them how.

Posted 5/7/2009 6:45 PM by J_Goldens_Shadow - reply

@J_Goldens_Shadow - Interesting verse John 3:16 ...If I can direct your attention to just a couple of verses further, maybe I can enlighten you :

Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not CONDEMNED; but he who does not believe is CONDEMNED already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the CONDEMNATION, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Oh dear ...This idea you have of a loving God that will not punish anyone looks very questionable now ....does it not ??

Thanks

Posted 5/7/2009 7:05 PM by PerilousTimes

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@PerilousTimes -

I'm not trying to cut anyone off here, but where did you get this "idea . . . of a loving God that will not punish anyone" from what J Golden's Shadow said? There's a difference between a forgiving God and a flimsy God. Mercy and justice are both eternal principles. Each sin has a punishment attached. But, because a loving God sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to perform the Atonement, repentance is possible to prevent the necessity of unending punishment. I cannot accept a God who would condemn one of his children to everlasting damnation because they never had the opportunity to accept Him while on earth.

Posted 5/8/2009 1:52 AM by kiltedfemale - reply

@PerilousTimes -

I didn't say that. What I did say is that God is far more loving a just than you put Him out to be. Life does not end at death. It is not at death that we are judged.

@kiltedfemale -

Thank you! I agree completely!!

Posted 5/8/2009 12:01 PM by J_Goldens_Shadow - reply

I definitely like this post, but I'm not sure what to say about it. haha. I agree that people like this person are not true followers of Christ... I guess is all I can really say.

Posted 8/25/2009 4:19 PM by nodnarbassoon - reply

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